First of all I want to thank you for your time and
availability. It means a lot for me and, I guess, for all the
people around the world, very curious about what it is going
on YouTube after the release of your amazing video footages
and information on the presumed “Apollo 20” space mission.
Now we can begin our interview. Because of my professional
activity, I will start from a skeptical point of view. So
please, I kindly ask you to understand it. You will have the
space to answer and for explaining your reasons.
is your name? How old are you and are you an American citizen?
Sometimes your written English contains some orthographical
mistakes… Are you forgetting your language rules (e.g., you
wrote “maicroscope” instead of “microscope”)? Somebody
on the Web said you do not seem (considering your writings) an
American-English native land…
I'm not offended, I like to answer to skeptics, you cannot
imagine what kind of messages I receive. That’s my name,
William Rutledge, no Standford Rutledge, it's another one.
Born in 1930 in Belgium, American citizen, I know about
mistakes, I'm writing too fast with arthrose problems and I'm
always nervous when I'm writing, it's like trying to contain a
flow of water. I'm not accustomed to speak in English anymore
since 1990. I have learned Kinyarwanda and use French,
sometimes German because Rwanda is a former Belgium-German
How long have you been living in Rwanda and why did you move
It 's a woman who brought me to Rwanda, maybe I was searching
for somebody like one person who shared my life before.
Personally speaking, I have always been sensible to Africa
born women. (Buzz Aldrin was also sensible, he was the only
astronaut participating in a walk after martin Luther King's
death, it’s not a well known story). I established myself
with a new identity in Kigali in 1990, streets have no names
here. I stayed in Nyiamirambo quarter till 1994, war pushed me
to the north west of the country, near the Congo Kinshasa
Rwandan authorities do not know my past, my friends do.
Can you tell me anything about your life? Where are you from?
Where did you study ?
I've written on this on my others answers, Avro, Chance Vought,
just consider that USAF uses every person who can bring skills,
white, black, woman, every citizen. It was different with
NASA, all astronauts were West Point students, only Alan Bean
was an artist, Armstrong was a philosopher and Aldrin a
How did you become an astronaut with NASA (I suppose) in the
NASA didn't employ me, USAF did, I had worked on the study of
foreign technology, RUSSIAN only, study about the N1 project,
AJAX plane project and the Mig Foxbat 25. I had some skills
for using computer navigation and was a volunteer for the
MOL-Gemini project. USAF recalled that, I have been chosen
later for Apollo 20 because I was one of the rare pilot who
didn't believe in God (it has changed since 1990) but it was a
criterion in 1976. It was not the status of the NASA
astronauts. Not believing in God made the difference. That's
Can you prove who you are with some photos or documents of
yours, taken during the training by NASA or even before,
during your work at the Bell Laboratories? Can you send them
to me as attachments, for a publication?
I will put them online, but I will focus on Leonov, to end
When and above all why did you decide to disclose these
information about classified space missions and is there
anybody who is protecting you?
It's the announcement of "the wonder of it all"
maybe, and 2012 is coming fast. I also think that UFOs will
appear more often starting from September 2007. A lot of
people died around me in Rwanda, and I have more time to take
care of this. About protection, please understand it's hard to
speak of my armoury.
After the “Apollo 20” mission, taken place in August 1976
according to the information you have provided, what did you
do and when did you leave the U.S.A. ?
After Apollo 20, several things happened, I was not aware of
how the material collected would be used. I thought Space
Shuttle was a bad idea, I’ve worked on the KH 11 project
In your writings provided on YouTube you mentioned the members
of the “Apollo 20” crew: among them there is the former
Soviet cosmonaut, Alexei Leonov. I remember he is still alive.
Does he know what you are doing on the Web? Did you talk with
him before April 2007 and if the answer is no, aren’t you
afraid about what he could do or tell?
Leonov is not aware of all this , I cannot contact him,
contacts were completely lost in 1982-1984, I went to the Ural
in 1995 or 1994, can't recall, responding to an invitation,
but it was a mess here, I crossed Moscow when tanks were
shooting the Russian parliament. Cant' imagine his reaction.
If he discovers the videos without preparation, he can confirm
or leave at once. If he is warned, and prepared, he can deny.
A question about the dialogues subtitles on the
“spaceship footage”: did you make them or did somebody
else make them? There are some mistakes (e.g., the personal
pronoun is “I”, with the capital letter, not “i” as
there is written). What about the original dialogues? Were
there in the footage? Did you have problems with the codecs
during the transfer?
Yes, plenty of problems, subtitles are made just before
transfer, I have to work with the distance, I'll be back in
Rwanda in July. I asked to put the flyover very quickly, they
made the subtitles in one hour, buried instead of burried,
aperture to 1.8 is not at the right place, there are mistakes
but is does not shock me. The Apollo 11 mention at the
beginning of the film surprised me, it is on the original
film, one internaut signaled that to me. The films are not the
first generation, some of them were copied in 1982 I'm sure of
this, some have a blue background from the end of the 70's.
There are in the dialogues between the astronauts and
the Mission Control, some expressions that I do not
understand: for instance, “CSM”, “DSKY” and
“Vandenberg Twenty”. I could think that “DSKY” is
about the position on the Moon (close to the Izsak crater) and
that the “Vandenberg Twenty” is about the Mission Control,
located by the Vandeberg Air Force Base, in California. Can
you explain them?
is Command Service Module, DSKY was the computer "display
keyboard", we used many acronyms. AGC is Apollo Guidance
Computer, same that DSKY, but located in the Apollo spacecraft
and coupled with a telescope ( […] on the LM).
some videos, the first image you see is the DSKY panel with
lines prog indicates the program running verb and noun verb
indicates what the DSKY has to do and show. Before filming I
had to enter verb 15 (display MET, mission elapsed time, or
hours minutes seconds since lift-off, then noun 65 for
displaying on there rows, hours on the first line minutes on
the second, and seconds/tens of seconds on the third line).
Then in every movie we put the date on the beginning of the
shot, MET, Mission Elapsed Time, hours since lift-off. In the
flyover movie, the computer indicates 144 hours if I remember.
(CC) is the function of the unique officer charged of
transmission to astronauts. He gathers all information and
transmit them to the astronauts, news from the ground,
instructions for the corrections, wake up calls, three persons
syntax was "Vandenberg" calling Vandenberg next
"twenty" a call from twenty. Inverted when starting
from Earth: Capcom- Twenty or sometimes EEcom- Twenty Guido -
Twenty when we had a special work to do, docking, correction.
When undocking was made the communications were different.
Vandenberg Constellation (name of the Apollo spacecraft);
Vandenberg Phoenix (name of the LM). The Apollo 19 Apollo
spacecraft was Endymion and Artemis was the Lunar Module name.
I would like to know something more about the
preparation of the “Apollo 20” mission. From where and
when the Saturn rocket was launched and how many people were
involved in that classified mission. Can you do some names?
300 people were involved on the preparation, but more other
witnesses in Vandenberg. It was launched from this AFB. More
witnesses, yes, many people saw departures in the sky, cameras
were forbidden all around the Vandenberg site, but today a lot
of Space spotters film every launch of Delta rockets, from
towns. Other people saw this launch but not knowing it was a
Saturn 5. One internaut viewing the launch video says this
launch is a Saturn 1B. If today, with all available
information, somebody makes such a mistake, you can image how
it was in 1976. The preparation was long, subject of
cancellations, new starts. Russians had the first information
since 1966, I don't know what was their source.
Can you tell me anything about the Russian collaboration
to “Apollo 20”?
James Chipman Fletcher for USA and Valentin Alexeiev for
Russia, Werner Von Braun was one of the happy viewer. Capcom
were Charles Peter Conrad and James Irwin.
Tell me something about the “Apollo 18” and the
“Apollo 19” missions; specially about the last one and its
failure. Was it a classified mission with the same goal of the
“Apollo 20”? Tell me about your ex girlfriend, Stephanie
Ellis, “first American woman in Space” according to what
you wrote to me in a former letter. The official space history
does not include her as astronaut…
18 was the Apollo-Soyuz project, the honeymoon before a moon
landing mission, it was presented as a simple "shaking
hands " mission in 1975. Apollo 19 and 20 were hazardous
missions. On long duration flight the helium pressure was too
high on the LEM, a security disk had to burst if pressure was
going high, but motor was unusable after. So it was changed on
Apollo 19 and 20, but not tested in Space before. It was ok,
but… in the paper. However, we got no problem with it. It
was a long mission, 7 days scheduled on the Moon, every ray of
light was used till ascent.
19 had a loss of telemetry, a brutal end of mission without
data. Now the truth is unknown but it seems that it was a
natural phenomenon, a collision with a "quasi-satellite
", like Cruithne, or a meteor (the probability is higher
I think). The goal was the same, the landing site was the
same, the exploration program was different, they had a big
job to do with the rover, exploring the roof of the ship by
climbing on the "Monaco hill", (I'll have to put a
lunar map online). NO American astronaut is listes, I
discovered since may that many people find many William
Rultledge in NASA. I can be found in the list of the Test
pilots of Chance Vought, on the consultant list of the James
Forrestal Center, I was involved in fluid mechanics. My boss
was Bogdanoff (nothing in common with the Bogdanoff scientists).
Ellis was born in Abidjan (Ivory Coast) in 1946, arrived in
America at the age of 7 months. She was a LM specialist, she
worked with Grumman Bethpage for new implementations on the
navigation system of the LM (Note that LM15 was officially
destructed by Grumman). She contributed to debug the Luminary
program, who was never bug free. Apollo 19 and 20 had serious
problems with docking and rendez-vous. Her technical knowledge
was as deep as Roger Chaffee. She was a wonderful and funny
person. I have some pictures of her in the LEM and Ingress 16
mm footage. I'll not show the other members of the crew.
collaborations; I don't know how, but Russian were informed of
the presence of a ship on the far side. Luna 15 in July 1969
crashed just at the South of the nose of the ship. It was a
probe similar to Ranger or Lunar Orbiter. They provided maps,
precise charts of this area. The center of decision was
located in the Ural, in the town of Sverdlovsk. The chief of
the program was professor Valentin Alekseiev, who became later
president of the academy of science in Ural. Leonov was chosen
because of his popularity in the communist leading staff, and
secondary only because he was on Apollo-Soyuz. In 1994, I met
again Valentin Alekseiev in Ural, Yekaterinburg, and he had a
model of the spaceship made of malachite with incrustations of
gold on his desk.
could tell you 100 stories about how Russians wanted to
impress us. For example, when I came to the Academy of the
Ural for the first time, my feet sticked on the ground, they
had put varnish on the floor, not dried, for showing us new
offices, they did all this "the Russian way",
quickly, with quantity, not completely ready.
Is there anybody in U.S.A., Russia or in Europe that can
confirm your story? And are you not afraid that somebody can
threaten your friends or relatives?
In USA, honestly I don't know who is living now.
Conrad died a strange way I think, his death was awful. Irwin
is dead, von Braun also I think. James Fletcher. Leona
Marietta Snyder is alive and communicates and support me in
this job. In Russia, Valentin Alekseiev, and Alexei Leonov.
Leonov is retired, I'm not sure of this but his health is a
security, no problem as far I live in Rwanda, I only have
problem now in Europe, my family is dead. I went to Rwanda in
1990, and stayed during 3 wars, the April-July 1994 were the
worst years of my life, but I have now true friends in the
Tootsie community and Government. (I'm not known in Rwanda as
William Rutledge and American citizen, I have a whole new life).
kept my moon flag, beta cloth name, and moon al7b equipment
with original dust.
What did you know about the unofficial Warwick Research
Institute Report on the “Public Acclimation Program”,
released in 1992 to the MUFON?
I have no knowledge of this report, 1992 was a very
hard year for me, I was disconnected from all this, can you
give me a link?
Now we can discuss the ancient “alien spaceship” and
“the City” on the farside of the Moon. Did you go inside
the spaceship? How big was it and what did you find inside?
went inside the big spaceship, also into a triangular one. The
major parts of the exploration was; it was a mother ship, very
old, who crossed the universe at least milliard of years ago
(1.5 estimated). There were many signs of biology inside, old
remains of a vegetation in a "motor" section,
special triangular rocks who emitted "tears" of a
yellow liquid which has some special medical properties, and
of course signs of extra solar creatures. We found remains of
little bodies (10cm) living in a network of glass tubes all
along the ship, but the major discovery was two bodies, one
Did you visit “the City” on the Moon? Where was it?
Did you understand if was there a connection with the Space
ship? Are “the City” and “the Ship” still there?
The "City" was named on Earth and scheduled as
station one, but it appeared to be a real space garbage, full
of scrap, gold parts, only one construction seemed intact(we
named it the Cathedral). We made shots of pieces of metal, of
every part wearing calligraphy, exposed to the sun. The
"City" seem to be as old as the ship, but it is a
very tiny part. On the rover video, the telephotolens make the
What about the “Mona Lisa EBE”? [the correct Italian
name is “Monna Lisa”] How does she look like and where was
she at that time, when you found out her on the Moon. Where do
you think she is now?
Lisa – I don’t remember who named the girl, Leonov or me -
was the intact EBE. Humanoid, female, 1.65 meter. Genitalized,
haired, six fingers (we guess that mathematics are based on a
dozen). Function; pilot, piloting device fixed to fingers and
eyes, no clothes, we had to cut two cables connected to the
nose. No nostril. Leonov unfixed the eyes device (you'll see
that in the video). concretions of blood or bio liquid erupted
and froze from the mouth, nose, eyes and some parts of the
body. Some parts of the body were in unusual good condition,
(hair) and the skin was protected by a thin transparent
protection layer. As we told to mission control, condition
seemed not dead not alive. We had no medical background or
experience, but Leonov and I used a test, we fixed our bio
equipment on the EBE, and telemetry received by surgeon (Mission
Control meds) was positive. That’s another story. Some parts
could be unbelievable now, I prefer tell the whole story when
other videos will be online. This experience has been filmed
in the LM. We found a second body, destroyed, we brought the
head on board. Color of the skin was blue gray, a pastel blue.
Skin had some strange details above the eyes and the front, a
strap around the head, wearing no inscription. The
"cockpit" was full of calligraphy and formed of long
semi hexagonal tubes. She is on Earth and she is not dead, but
I prefer to post other videos before telling what happened
Were you able to understand the origin of the spacecraft
and how old was it?
The age was estimated to 1.5 milliards of years, it was
confirmed during exploration, we found ejections from the
original crust, anorthosite, spirals in feldspathoids, coming
from the impact which formed Izsak D; The density of meteor
impacts on the ship validated the age, also little white
impacts on the Monaco hill at the West of the ship...
Can you give me the technical details for every material
you disclosed on YouTube? I mean, can you distinguish among
the tv transmissions from the Lunar rover and the camera
footages, during the flyovers? I would need to know the
details of shooting for every video you spread on the Web.
What is the meaning of the strange numbers visibile on the
videos, which sometimes slowly stream over the frames, in the
flyover of the Moon?
I have answered so much time on this, especially to a ESA
astronaut. The transfer was in made in Rwanda, […] with
codec and sound recuperation is not good, but it becomes
better. The subtitles are not genuine, but put on the videos
after transfer. I asked to remove the voices sometimes to
protect one person from mission control.
used three video cameras in Apollo, one on the rover, called
GTCA, it is not the name of a company (a commenter made a
mistake on this) but a Westinghouse color camera. All three
color cameras has a color wheel who produced a time frame
delay when transmitting to the earth. I think it could be
possible for a company to restore a good TV picture. The CSM
camera had a black and white monitor, and produced stable
pictures, sharp because focusig was visible on the monitor.
The LM camera had a glass visor. The CSM camera was used one
time on the AGC Visor, using the coordinates I've transmitted
during the flyover video. The Flyover video was made in zero
gravity. I was located on the left window, attitude horizontal,
legs around the hammock, lens on the polycarbonate glass. The
cameras had a Vidicon tube sensible with light, a large
quantity of light, or changing the diaphragms put dropouts
during transmission. The markings, numbers are used to perform
a good landing. During program 64, when […] in almost in
vertical attitude, we had to put the "60" number on
the landing site and hold it on the target minutes before
landing. These marks are on the both […] windows, you can
verify it on a NASA site. Please verify on a genuine NASA site,
(I got a flame by somebody who verified on the Apollo 13 movie)
the markings had a special angle inclination. If you check it,
you'll have an idea of my precise position during this
How did you get years
ago the copies of the footages of the mission?
the footages […] one day, someone I know told me he was
charged to maintain security around a container. A building
had to be destroyed, and archives had to be burn by a plasma
torch. The nuclear power plant didn’t deliver energy at the
right price, so the container was plenty of interest things
during some days. As human is naturally curious, people
charged of security went inside… My friend took video films,
a couple of 16 mm plates, boxes of B/W paper, two enlargers…
He contacted me for selling the unsued paper, and that’s how
I discovered the other things. I’ve already seen some
picture before, 11*16 pictures were violet/blue, old RC
photographies, I watched the tapes , it was not a business
affair, I put them in security, the only important thing for
me were the BW sheets of paper. It was 15 years ago.
Have you ever met Clark McClelland, former NASA engineer
who lost his job years ago because of what he discovered at
the KSC (I suppose alien bodies or alien objects from the
you can give me the links. Documents can be at KSC, but no
bodies or alien craft I think.
You mentioned in a former letter Christopher Moellers
and McSorley. Who are they?
Moellers is the website officer on Oceans NASA site [http://oceancolor.gsfc.nasa.gov];
McSorley also. Annette Moore is 508 Coordinator. I only have
mail exchange with Johnson Space Center for the moment. There
is a moment of panic I think since May 18. Check 508
coordinator NASA on a search engine. Statement 508 is the way
of pushing NASA to declassify material. I expected a reaction.
>>> it is a part of my strategy, NASA has the right
to block me if I download unauthorized information. If they
explain why they block me, they recognize that the videos can
be obtained from them. If I sue them for violation of
Statement 508, they will be forced to prove I downloaded
unauthorized material , and it's not the case, I never go on a
May 18, I have not a precise answer, I have to wait for a
decision from the headquarters.
as Italian citizen, you have the right to ask for material
from a federal agency like NASA, see 508 Statement:
Aren’t you afraid of the U.S. Government’s reaction
and why did you talk about the date of September 2007, when
NASA and USAF (according to you) “will be forced to tell the
whole story before September 2007” What does it mean and Who
is your “deep throat”? In another recent your
communication to me, you talked about the “2012” year. You
said: “In 2012, the weakers will die, and governments
preserve the only bit of their heritage […] everybody has to
be prepared for 2012”. Is there any connection with the
“Planet X” return (the ancient Nibiru, adored by the
Sumerians in Mesopotamia) ? What did you know about it?
W.R. I'm the deep throat. What can NASA USAF do
now? Blocking or suing me would be an acknowledgement. They
can speak of hoax or fiction. I'm just afraid they could open
a site or another account with my name or putting almost
perfect false videos with voluntary errors to disinform.
Fortunately, bureaucracy and time works for me. It's a race.
why the idea of putting the Leonov files is a good idea, no
controversy anymore, there are no Leonov footage, no videos of
this period of Leonov in a LM or on a USA USAF base. It is
unthinkable related to the official version .
W.R. I am a passionate of the
Sumerian period, of the Genesis as related by Sumerian. They
clearly explain how gods created man. But I have no
indications on Sumerian cosmogony, send me some links.
is a question you didn't ask for and I'm always surprised that
nobody does. This could be your question 27 - why is it
necessary to hide UFOs, why disinformation, why putting all
this under the carpet? It's question of economics. All
currencies on Earth are based on the value of gold. Not many
citizens know that but gold is an extraterrestrial metal
coming from the death of a star. When a star is dying, its
mass is growing, atoms are compressed and when the star
explodes, it spreads large amounts of gold in young solar
systems. That's why gold is not a mineral to treat but a
perfect, carbon free metal. This mean that it is the most
common substance in the universe, no more value than a piece
enough to put down all world currencies. Imagine also that an
EBE says: "coffee has a good taste, rare in this galaxy",
the only perspective of trading coffee through universe would
displace the economic power to countries of the South in one
day. You see, not a problem of panic, but simply a problem of
end of the interview
Luca Scantamburlo, 2007
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